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Netheril : Age of Magic

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51
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Gmork on January 09, 2022, 02:28:11 am »
It is unfortunate that you have been told the wrong information and I am sorry for that. We were supplied with evidence from sources that wish to remain anonymous that say it was very much played out in-game.
52
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Gorga on January 08, 2022, 03:09:23 pm »
It seems that you are suggesting that we should be more lenient of stories that deal with inter-family sexual relations and that we were only using the fact that this was roleplayed in the server as an excuse to ban a player.

I am not suggesting this at all. This sort of thing does not interest me. From what I was told, it was only discussed OOC, then abandoned and not roleplayed IC in the server.
53
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Leyoz on January 08, 2022, 05:02:31 am »
Hi All

I considered about writing anything here, because I don't want to create more divide. This is only my experience, what I've heard etc.

I have played a lot of different servers, some very popular, some not. Because I love Netheril (for a lot of the reasons that Solomon said under "The Good"). The primary reason that many had tried and left, or things they heard about the playerbase (which of course includes me). I don't need to repeat what they said but the majority of the comments centered on the kind of behavior that a recent player was banned for. Behavior that was firmly against the rules and was allowed to continue.

One of the good things I find about the server is the team does listen. They are actively updating quests, loot, putting in new systems, playing with players, including open events and player specific plots. I see a team that clearly loves it players and wants them to have fun, sometimes to their own/server detriment.

They do make mistakes, some of which is trying to please everyone (I see an 'us and them' framing but some of the the 'us and them' is actually groups of players feeling jealous, complaining about other players) disparate vision leading to various inconsistencies, and not being the best at administration. But let's remember DMing is a volunteer labor of love. It strikes me as a pretty thankless task when you get a lot of complaining. Note not all feedback is like that at all, but something to keep in mind when giving feedback.

Stay safe and happy playing.
54
Mechanical Changes / Please refer to the wiki site for Mechanical Changes
« Last post by Rainman on January 08, 2022, 02:32:10 am »
As stated, please refer to the wiki for any mechanical changes.

Thanks
55
General Discussion / Re: Retiring Lauriella
« Last post by Rainman on January 08, 2022, 02:28:22 am »
It was a pleasure to help in a small way to tell your character's story and some of your stories will live on in game.

thanks

56
Announcements / Re: Rules: Please Read
« Last post by Rainman on January 08, 2022, 01:57:27 am »
Definitions of a Ban

Warnings - Are at the discretion of the DM team and may result in a ban.

Temp Ban - Can have character wiped and can return after the time frame has been completed.

Permanent Ban - All characters on the server wiped and may apply to re-join the community but this is at DM Team discretion and must wait at least a month to appeal.
57
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Solomon on January 07, 2022, 10:34:28 pm »
Unfortunately, I received only a small amount of outreach and can provide my concerns only in relation to my own understandings ( i.e. what I have read in the server, screenshots, and stories, the reactions of those I have talked to, and my own personal reactions to both of the previous parts), but I hope that I can still provide a useful perspective. I have been accused of being wordy before, so I'll give a general overview of what I'm saying first. If you're worried about specifics, those will follow below.

Overall/TL;DR:

I would give the roleplay centric persistent world of Netheril: Age of Discovery a 4/10, and let me explain why. This server has some of the best content I have ever seen in Neverwinter Nights community servers. There are multi-layered scripted quests, obvious roleplay hubs, easy to explore areas, a full-scale faction war, and more impressive and unique projects put on display. Unfortunately, this is paired with one of the most mismanaged communities I've ever seen. I don't believe that it's done from a place of anger or favoritism, though - I think the staff and DM team have simply made something they are rightfully proud of and may have gotten a little too focused on that content. Whether or not there can be changes to that management team is yet to be seen and recent events don't give me hope. If you're looking for a well-made amusement park and you don't mind that it's empty, check out the in-game server but avoid the Discord server.



The Good:

This server has content. It's dense and heavy and everywhere. If you find yourself in a map with an NPC, it's likely that you'll either encounter a shop or a scripted quest. Every map feels hand-crafted and carefully put together with details evident in all corners. Even though this place is currently listed as in Active Beta, everything on the modelling, mapping, coding, and customization is already very fleshed out and robust. It would be a crime not to point out the war system that is actively being refined, as well, allowing for large-scale faction wars that are ongoing and that players appear to be able to influence and alter the outcome of. In addition to the custom hardware, there is custom software with altered, new, imported, or rehashed spells and feats to encourage multiple interesting builds. The balance of gold/item gain and effort put into attaining those is pretty well done though it is also currently in improvements as well, suggesting promise for the future of the server's opportunities for activity and fun.

Travelling around the in-game world is mostly predictable and occasionally more rewarding than you might expect! Getting from hub to hub is as easy as getting on a boat or taking a long walk along lush landscapes and fun encounters. Most of the enemies that you'll face spawn far enough ahead as to give a rogue a chance to enter stealth or a magician to prepare themselves or the battlefield, and none of them truly feel unfair. Early game may be rough for squishier characters that don't have enough health to handle being stung by a handful of bees, but breaking past the third or fourth level usually gets an early adventurer on their feet with a purse full of gold or a pretty well-stocked collection of beginner's gear.

One of the major changes from v0/1 to v2 is the implementation of Prestige Classes no longer being locked behind application or DM involvement, but through in-game, scripted quests that are tied to both the flavor and the mechanics of the class. Requirements have been altered in some ways, arguably in less-than-ideal, but most of the choices fit with the theme and the goal of the server's aesthetic of a low-to-medium magic set of mechanics in what is a very high-magic setting. Along with that update, some efforts have been made to document changes on their server wikipedia, though there is still room for players and staff both to contribute further.

The Bad:

First, this server has very few players, specifically in the US timezones. For as dense and crunchy as the mapped out world of Netheril has been made, there are few living people to interact with which really inhibits the server from shining as much as it should. There are threads of stories in place, but they have been left untugged. There are plots hanging with no player base to support and move them forward. While events do cause small peaks, as well as there being a relatively tight-knit Australian contingent, the lack of population leaves the server feeling like an amusement park that's both abandoned and in construction. This extends to the community Discord and Forums where a handful of hard-at-work DMs are letting the void know what they're working on, asking for suggestions, and then moving on without a scrap of input due to there being nobody to give input, or a more problematic issue discussed later on.

Second, there are active conflicts between in-place systems and future systems. (The good on this one is that they're still in works and being discussed, though.) Those conflicts also extend out to the server itself in a few different ways that will be discussed in more detail in the Ugly section. Examples of the issues currently are the clunky crafting system being relatively low powered for being a massive time and resource investment, a gem-slot system potentially disrupting the entire enchanting arm of the crafting system, and the best loot being locked not behind time, effort, involvement, but DM gifting as a reward for events or roleplay.

The Ugly:

The long-term mismanagement of this server, primarily its community, is the reason for both of the major issues as pointed out in The Bad. While I did set out in hopes of possibly drumming up a population boom for this server, especially by talking to those who have left and have yet to come back, but was ultimately disappointed by the resounding response: Nobody wants to return. They cite exhaustion and exasperation with a variety of communication breakdowns, perceived favoritism, perceived cycles of abuse, and the perception that the old staff are above reproach while the new staff are nervous and anxious and left out of the loop.

The communication breakdowns that occur most often do so in the community Discord where a comment is misinterpreted, blown-up, and turned into an argument instead of a conversation. Of those breakdowns, more still appear to be started when discussing the implementation of changes and new changes where a dissenting opinion, regardless of how polite or constructive, may be perceived as a personal attack upon someone's hard work. Unfortunately, this pushes further this perception that the community was (and is) splintered by an 'Us vs. Them' mentality which is incredibly unhelpful and unhealthy. Suggestions have been opened up on the Discord and were once, even just four months ago, a pretty active section of the community server but have since slowed down near the mid-to-end of August. And, following another schism recently, even the active Discord chatter has been reduced to a crawl.

The previously mentioned DM gifting of high-end gear that is otherwise unattainable contributes to a sense of favoritism granted towards a number of players. While rewards are obviously a great thing to give out at the end of an event or as part of a hard-earned roleplay, gear often ends up either back on the market or in the pockets of those who hoard and collect, assuming such gear ever leaves the hands of the rewarded individual(s). A suggestion to the team on that regard would be to stop the practice of having any thing unattainable to be handed out as a reward and to instead switch to a scripted quest, world boss, or other applicable challenge as a chance of getting that impossible-to-find weapon or armor or trinket. DM favoritism is much more difficult to pull off if the only rewards given out are in experience points and gold, and players that will not/can not attend events, whether it be a time restriction or a character-specific restriction, can still attain mechanical peaks that they can be proud of.

While my own opinion is that the previous and current playerbase may be being mistreated, the few sources I have were more inclined to point to things easily searchable to see their issues. Many times, staff members and DMs are able to carry on in their own fashion and come across as rude, mean, unfair, etc. and a few players react to those events and then a small fight occurs where the players end up more punished than the people meant to be upholding the codes of conduct. In addition to this, players are often punished in public ways - a recent example being the banning of a player who was not named in the forum post, but instead had their dirty laundry aired out. For those not familiar with the server's community or their Discord, it might be difficult to tell who it is that was banned, but it feels like priorities were switched on what is important for such an announcement. When players join together and agree on something that they do not agree with coming from a staff member, they are usually told to drop it, messages have been deleted, or it further pushes the concept of 'Us vs. Them' when, in reality, players very often just want to express their concerns, offer up what they think is better, and can handle being treated like adults instead of being seen as argumentative or contrarian simply for having an opposing thought. And then they, along with any one else who really enjoys and prefers playing with said player(s) leave the server. After this, there is occasionally a fix implemented but it often comes too little too late, or with a tonedeaf approach as those concerned players have already left and cannot contribute to the conversation any more.

On the opposite end, staff members have broken their own community rules and are either ignored or are supposedly punished behind closed doors where they must fear a "dressing down" (concern: verbal abuse?), though there appear to be no long-lasting consequences for any actions for those who have been around since the inception of the server thus granting them free reign to be an asshole to people and punish those who react with their feelings hurt. Any interactions where this has taken place usually involves a private apology, though I am glad to see more public apologies given. Unfortunately, this is just a continuation of that cycle. As demonstrated by recent events, when a core staff member act out, you can expect the following: an apology (most often private, even for public actions), a suggestion that the affected player(s)/community at large should go easier on those core members due to cultural differences, and then a return to form.

In the past, I have encountered a number of miscommunications between the staff members or an outright lack of communication in some cases. While that has been partially addressed with the inclusion of a modmail function on their community discord, it still seems that the team's vision is undefined and not yet agreed upon which is a problem for builders, coders, and creators as well as the players who wish to support those efforts or the server's storyline(s). I do hope that things are changing but I cannot look past the screen put up between players and staff members in that regard as there seems to be this belief that the staff are above, have authority over, control, or otherwise are not on the same playing field as the players, further reducing player involvement and by extention player population. Further on this, players are often redirected to the forums to place their important information, suggestions, etc. yet the forum is markedly devoid of conversation and involvement which disheartens the player from doing just that as it creates the sense that their posted issues or concerns are left to rot.



Please note that while I have played in the mentioned server for multiple years, off-and-on, I have no ill intention towards the server or its staff and players. I truly wish that things could be resolved on the team side, perhaps through the involvement of a community manager at the reigns of the Discord while those who are too close to their project to accept open criticism or suggestions are given a less personal overview of player concerns. While I have touched base with previous players, both of older and the newer versions, all of the above statements and concerns are my own and representative of my own experiences. If the perceptions I have are from an ill informed aspect, it would be due to the staff and dungeon master team maintaining their own silence on these counts and I do hope to be proven wrong.
58
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Gmork on January 06, 2022, 01:07:55 am »
TheMightyGorga — Yesterday at 9:57 PM
What of a certain recent player ban that I feel may have been done more out of personal enmity than over any sort of actual policy breach? This is the reason I have not been in game since I heard of it. I’m off to work. I’ll check replies later.

Matthew "Gmork" Meier — Yesterday at 10:14 PM
We have been very open about what happened. The player had received official warnings in the past about their conduct in regards to back stories and taboo topics. This was the third time we had to have this sort of discussion and as it should be well known 3 official warnings will incur a ban. This was not an easy call to make as the player has been here for a long time and was a friend, but we can not have 1 rule for people and another for friends. This call would have been made for anybody who had received warnings in the past about the same sort of behavior. 30 day ban before appeal is reasonable for some one who has shown that they did not learn from their past mistakes.

TheMightyGorga — Today at 4:48 AM
Thanks. I would like to know where in the forums it says there's a three-strikes-and-you're-out policy. I have not seen it and the person in question says they have not seen it. Also they were told that V2 would be a clean slate, nothing from the past would matter. So, I would also like to see the documentation on the specific 3 official warnings during V2, as again the person in question says they were never warned officially. Thank you. (edited)

Le'Moure — Today at 8:41 AM
Maybe it's just me but I find a lot of this very odd..  Granted I really have no stake in any of this, or any of those involved..

On one side you have the DM team attempting to shield information on punishments etc. such as player names / identities, people doing the reporting..

On the other you have players asking for more details up to what is now essentially all information involved, used and now where the official warning were given.

Both of these don't really have a way of meshing... No?  Either Everyone involved can be stated and all information that was used also given, or identities and the same information can also be shielded with a blanket statement of what occured.

idk just seems very odd to me, but maybe I'm the odd one out.  I don't really come here for drama, if I wanted that I'd go talk to either side of my parents families

1
[8:43 AM]
Obviously the most vocal ones are likely the ones having some type of issue with what's going on, and I don't really have a frame of reference past that and the intent from just about all of them has been "We want all information from you the team".

@TheMightyGorga
Thanks. I would like to know where in the forums it says there's a three-strikes-and-you're-out policy. I have not seen it and the person in question says they have not seen it. Also they were told that V2 would be a clean slate, nothing from the past would matter. So, I would also like to see the documentation on the specific 3 official warnings during V2, as again the person in question says they were never warned officially. Thank you. (edited)

Matthew "Gmork" Meier — Today at 9:27 AM
I'm sorry, this is not a court case, and you will not be able to derail what has happened with a 'well, it's not specifically stated that...', and while I could answer you're questions, I think that they actually point to a larger problem. It seems that you are suggesting that we should be more lenient of stories that deal with inter-family sexual relations and that we were only using the fact that this was roleplayed in the server as an excuse to ban a player. The truth to this is we should have banned the player the first time they brought this sort of story into the server. It was a gross failure on our part that we opted for leniency in this case and it undermines the call that we have been unfair to this player. Had it been any other player we would have outright banned them on the first transgression. Again, this was our mistake and one we will not make again. The ruling stands
These sort of discussions should not be taking place on main. We may, in the coming days, open a new channel for concerns and questions, but for now I am going to move this talk to the forums after a few hours (to let those involved read this) and I will expect that further discourse on this topic, or any other chat like it, be kept there for now.
59
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Gmork on January 04, 2022, 10:02:13 am »
In the effort to remain transparent and honest I will add some much-needed context to the above post.
This player had been making huge posts in his journal and then treating whatever was said in these journals as in-game truths. It has been said before, but now it seems it has to be made a firm rule, that the journals are for players and that the DM's probably will not get to read them (we have a lot of things going on) unless there is need to find out some information. It is stated, though, that things put into the journal can only be things that are in character, that is: not figments of the author's imagination (unless the character is utterly insane of course). By the time we fully understood what was happening this player's character was a fully powerful archmage from the future with special knowledge of all things arcane and knew what will happen to Netheril.
What's more, they were now able to make a time machine so they could travel back to the future to fix her past.
We had a dm who was trying to be accommodating to the player without hurting other people's stories. But it did start affecting others and so it was brought to all of us.
There was a DM consensus that, since they were going to retire, we wanted a disclaimer put on the epilogue saying that this was fanfiction and not cannon to our server so that other players would not be confused.
The disclaimer was added ('*This character is retired' was all that was written in plain text), but it did not address what we had asked and did nothing to clarify what was happening. He was asked to please make it more clear at which point he deleted his journal and got angry.
60
General Discussion / Re: Discord Discussion on Public Relations
« Last post by Winterhawk99 on January 04, 2022, 08:59:59 am »
Having a star chamber where players are convicted guilty before they can even defend themselves is enough for me to leave. There are two particular members of your staff that I have issues with and therefore I will no longer tolerate being called out for things I did not do.

I have moved on to do what I do best for the whole of the NWN community. I only have one debt to pay now to Rainman and I will eventually accomplish that in the name of my good reputation.

Thank you Winterhawk99, former CTP modder, Q-team consultant, Hall of fame tileset maker and Silver Dragon of the AME.
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